A pseudo-important note
Why is it that every time I say something that seems to not go along with Roman Catholic doctrine that everyone blames my RCIA training? I’ve learned the fundamentals in RCIA; I’ve read books on Catholicism; hell, I’ve even started to read the Catechism. Whenever I say something that you think isn’t aligned with Roman Catholicism, please don’t claim it’s because of a lack of training. Stephanie and jdavidb have both said this within the past 24 hours.
Why is it that I cannot be my own person with my own ideas? Simply because I am now Catholic doesn’t mean that I in anyway have relinquished my intellect. And I also don’t want people to think that I am contradicting Catholic doctrine.
And now regarding this Catholic board; because I never alert people to, “Hey everyone my best friend died so now I’m going through personal doubts!” or “I’m reading books by Marcus Borg!” or “I’m currently struggling with understanding God as some sort of being who sits above the sky sitting on a throne. Anyone want to help?” they seem to think that I go through violent changes very rapidly (so rapidly that they perceive it to be inauthentic). These people, as much as they are my brothers and sisters, are not the ones in which I confide. They don’t know me at all, so for them to make such pronouncements (such as that I simply “regurgitate what I read”) is outrageous (sans the rage). The only people who really knows my struggles are my best friends Laura and Deb. Just because I pop in every now and then onto the board at different stages in my life doesn’t mean that I change so rapidly that it doesn’t really mean anything. These people are forgetting where I come from- I came from Anglicanism, not directly from the Campbellite church. I came as a liberal Protestant, and simply because I haven’t always been forthright with my liberalism doesn’t mean that it is something I have just happened across. I’ve always been a liberal (actually I’m more moderate and I even used to label myself as conservative because I’m fairly conservative as opposed to other liberals) and I have always read the works of “liberal” Anglican theologians such as Borg and Spong (cool names, huh?). All my brothers and sisters at the Catholic board seem to do is to insult the little intelligence I do have by saying, “Oh, I thought you were smarter than that 
” It’s not about intelligence! I’m not trying to come across as smarter-than-thou. If anything, I am proclaiming my ignorance as I try to grow and evolve as a Christian. I’m sick of people trying to tell me what I am trying to come across as or telling me my real motives. I regret that I say anything about my personal life to anyone other than Laura (and Deb to a lesser extent). For the time being, I’m going to leave them alone. I’m sorry for having bothered them and I hope there is no animosity between me and anyone else there.
My word! Life is a ball, isn’t it?
At any rate, my brother came home today from Iraq and is now at the house. What joy.
Monday, May 5, 2008 at 2:08 pm
If this is misplaced, please forgive me:
Whenever I say something that you think isn’t aligned with Roman Catholicism, please don’t claim it’s because of a lack of training. …Simply because I am now Catholic doesn’t mean that I in anyway have relinquished my intellect.
Because you’re Catholic now, you have access to the intellect of the Church. Holy Mother Church, in my experience, has frequently thought things out far better than I, and when I really dig deep with honest inquiry I find that out with a humbling frequency. True, you haven’t relinquished your intellect; rather, you’ve assumed the responsibility to think with the Church (sentire cum ecclesia) — including satisfying your intellect as to why she teaches what she does. If you can’t clearly articulate why the Church teaches as she does (citing Biblical, philosophical and historical reasons for same), I’m afraid it does point to a “lack of training”. (BTW, having learned it “all” in RCIA is a somewhat dubious claim…there are many very old and learned Saints who haven’t learned it “all”, RCIA attendance and a book here and there notwithstanding…
IF the Church is what she claims, you’re running a pretty high risk disagreeing with her (no matter the claim), for she is indeed the Body of Christ, led by the Vicar of Christ on earth and ensouled with the Holy Spirit of God, assured by Christ to be led into all truth. If the Church is NOT what she claims, she’s a charlatan and a fraud and she should be immediately and unequivocally rebuked with the strongest language. I happen to believe the former. YMMV.
I suppose that in closing I would suggest you reread John 3:30 and then reread your post. It seems as if something is amiss. But again, not knowing the nature of the disagreement I might be mistaken. If I am, I sincerely apologize.
Congrats on your brother’s coming home - my brother and I both served in the conflict and it’s always nice to see a comrade’s safe return.
God Bless,
Ryan
P.S.,
If you have a follow-up, I’ll be checking back on this blog as well as my e-mail.
Monday, May 5, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I am very thankful that you noticed I had said “all.” By “all” I meant “the fundamentals,” so I will make note to change that in my post.
And I don’t disagree with the Church at all. It’s not as if I am some rogue neophyte who is trying to change the Church to the way I want it. The disagreements I have are small (such as I prefer to have both the body and the blood during Communion , but in no wise am I saying that taking both is the way it should be done in all churches), but people always say, “Well you must not have learned true Catholic teaching then,” when I have! I know that no matter which one is taken, Christ is received in both of them.
I’m not puffing myself up against the Church; I agree with and love the Church. However, whenever I do or say something that is not normally said by other Catholics, it seems as if the first claim is that I “haven’t learned.” I just want people to know that I HAVE learned the fundamentals and I want them to stop insulting my intelligence. I’m not going to submit to the way everyone else does things. I need some leeway with my practices while still remaining entirely faithful to Christ and to the Church.
Monday, May 5, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Sorry, man; didn’t mean to unleash any negative emotions. I really just meant to say I was amazed noone had said that to you, just because I’ve heard it all the time! Maybe they have said it to you and you have reasons you don’t accept it, or whatever. I’ve never been in RCIA, so I don’t know what they are and are not supposed to cover.
Monday, May 5, 2008 at 4:37 pm
These aren’t negative emotions as much as it is that I am curious as to why people are saying that I must not have received good catechesis; but I did. Fr. Rod and all of the RCIA team at Saint Angela Merici did an excellent job teaching me the basics of the faith.
And again, you are claiming that I don’t accept it, but I do. This is what gets me flustered- people are putting words into my mouth. It’s just largely been getting to me.
Monday, May 5, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Well, sadly, these comments are not so much a reflection on you, really, as they are on the state of RCIA in our country, by and large. It is not uncommon to run into people who honestly have not even learned the basics of the faith in RCIA!
That said, I hope I clarified later I trust that you were very fortunate to have good RCIA instruction, I just question how much it “sank in” so to speak. And that’s not any kind of insult on your intelligence, but you must admit the turns you have taken and so quickly are not exactly the norm of someone who goes through RCIA and converts. Our actions speak to our thoughts and understanding of things, so as much as it might be frustrating to you (which I can certainly understand), you can’t really blame people for wondering, can you?
Now, I have one quibble with what you said…
“And I don’t disagree with the Church at all…The disagreements I have are small ”
Really? Are you sure?
I mean this in all seriousness…if your answer to this is yes, I’m very happy to hear it. But…that is not the impression I’d gotten from some of your recent statements.
Let me clarify further…you cannot agree with Spong and Borg, and simultaneously completely agree with the Church. And not on small things, I’m talking big things here, things having to do with Christ himself, Christology, the very core of our faith.
So, perhaps I’ve misunderstood your opinion of those guys, in which case I’m very pleased to hear it! But, one simply cannot agree with them and the Church, as their teachings are mutually exclusive.
I’m sorry you’ve found some of our comments frustrating lately, I honestly think people are prodding a bit because they care. You’re right, we don’t know all that’s gone on in your life…but hopefully you can understand, then, that’s exactly why people are wondering what happened.
Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 8:16 am
Erik,
Spong is an atheist in clerics and Borg is a pantheist. Run (don’t walk) away from them if you haven’t already.
As for receiving the Eucharist under both kinds, simply cite Sacrosanctum Concilium and quote the following:
“The dogmatic principles which were laid down by the Council of Trent remaining intact, Communion under both kinds may be granted when the bishops think fit, not only to clerics and religious, but also to the laity, in cases to be determined by the Apostolic See. . . .”
…or perhaps the first edition of the Missale Romanum:
“Holy Communion has a more complete form as a sign when it is received under both kinds. For in this manner of reception a fuller sign of the Eucharistic banquet shines forth. Moreover there is a clearer expression of that will by which the new and everlasting covenant is ratified in the blood of the Lord and of the relationship of the Eucharistic banquet to the eschatological banquet in the Father’s kingdom”
What this has to do with relinquishing your intellect or submitting “to the way everyone else does things” is beyond me — this doesn’t strike me as a key issue so as to merit the level of frustration you’re experiencing.
Perhaps there’s more?
Whatever the question, I’m sure I’ve already grappled with it (having come from an extremely liberal hedonist worldview to the bosom of Holy Mother Church), so maybe I can humbly offer some insight?
Again, since we are your family in Christ Jesus, we’re all just looking to help you get to heaven.
God Bless,
Ryan
Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 10:32 am
Erik, I guess the main thing I noticed was you referred to the bread as “the body” and the wine as “the blood,” and my understanding was that under Catholic teaching, the wine is the body AND the blood, and the bread is the body AND the blood. From what Catholic Audio said, it sounds like your desire to have both is very Catholic and considered a good thing by those who are in the know. But the terminology is different.
Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Well to be fair to Erik, jdavidb, while your understanding of Catholic theology is indeed correct (that we see each element as containing the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, and as a side note, each tiny crumb as well, so it matters not if you get a full host or one broken in half, you still receive all of Jesus), in everyday speak we do refer to the bread as “the body” and the wine as “the blood,” though theologically we understand they contain both. So the terminology is not incorrect.